Kylo Ren Vs Finn
Kylo may not have as much screen time as Rey, Finn, Han and Luke but the story definitively makes me think there's more to this character than a one-dimensional villain, they want us to speculate on Kylo's backstory and motivation because LFL think his fate does matter, his story will determine the fate of the Skywalker family beyond episode IX. Kylo Ren and Rey and Finn vs Anakin Skywalker. You can replace any of the 3 in this hologram for Kylo, Rey and Finn as it doesn't matter who is who. That's better than what Kylo Ren did.
Rey's arc in the ST has always been about her journey to become a Jedi, that never changed. Kylo's journey is equally important because he's not only the legacy of the Skywalker family but he's also Rey's main foil. Naturally, his story fuels hers and vice versa.
Those are the two characters that existed since day 1 so I'm comfortable in saying that this relationship is the core of the ST as far as I'm concerned. Not focusing on it, no matter the ultimate outcome, would be a major flaw of the ST to me. Click to expand.You see, I kind of feel a statement like that just highlights how much of a double standard Kylo has to enjoy to be seen that way. They ain’t even remotely equal in screentime or development (even as underdeveloped as Rey is, it’s still more than Kylo by quite a lot) and in terms of their roles in the story, no, an antagonist does not automatically become the equal of the protagonist at all. Ronan the Accuser didn’t need much beyond fanaticism and gloriously hammy acting to be an effective antagonist tothe Guardians of the Galaxy, because the Guardians, as protagonists, matter more than Ronan. Just like Rey clearly should, by all evidence at this point, matter far more than Kylo in any objective judgement.We aren’t talking about some Killmonger vs T’Challa situation here, where the villain.is. actually the second most prominently featured character in screentime and development, and thus their relationship is the heart of the film.
Kylo is always fourth in screentime in the two films thus far released, putting him well behind Rey, always behind Finn, and thus far always behind an OT3 character. Building off this, I think the reason 'Reylo' and 'Bendemption' do not appeal to so many people is because of how the Christian doctrine of forgiveness and redemption has been used in recent years as a way of defending the status quo and protecting the privileged (rich, white, male, usually from powerful families) from consequences for their actions. They are absolved of their sins while doing the bare minimum.
Meanwhile their victims, mostly women and people of color, are expected to suck it up and learn to soldier on without justice. Click to expand.Again, I believe Kylo & Rey to be mythic archetypes and I hesitate to use current politics and situations as metaphors for either of their arcs. Whether or not Rey pushes all of the correct buttons for a proper feminist protagonist or whether Kylo actions are perceived through the mirror of the American school shooter problem and as such the character is used to punish real world school shooters by proxy. I find both views myopic and missing the greater metaphysical point. The politics of ( rich, white, males from powerful familes) have nothing to do with Reylo or Bendemption.
Bendemption is not a word I would use but I agree with the idea, I am just a firm believer that atonement and repentance comes before redemption. Christian doctrine of forgiveness and redemption is part and parcel of Star Wars, it is built into it's DNA. However, I don't believe that Kylo's story and Vader's story are a one for one. I don't believe that Kylo has been set up to receive a Vader/Pauline like last minute redemption. JJ has said it recently, the new generation are dealing with inheriting the darkness and the light. The sins of the Grandfather are visited upon Kylo, however his burden is heavier if he wants to get back to the light or bring balance. So if you where trying to equate Kylo with rich, white, male, criminal who get's away with crimes, I think his story is more nuanced and complicated than that.As a women and person of color I see the operation of victimization as two fold.
How does this occur? I keep reiterating that Kylo was the shadow of the OT3 and I hold firm to that analogy. So if we are paying attention to the text of TFA & TLJ you will find the anatomy of how Kylo fell to the darkside. He was perceived as guilty long before he had done anything.e OT3 are holding secret the truth and identity of their relation to Vader, that secret is held because of fear and that fear is projected to Ben.
He inherited bad expectations from his bloodline connection to Vader. Ben was the 'problem' child shipped of to Uncle Luke to fix by his parents. This confirmed Kylo's feeling of abandonment and also a sense of rejection and a confirmation that he was a monster. So the adolescent says well if they think I am bad well let me show them how bad I can really be. It does not even matter if Leia, Han, & Luke actually believed that. It is what the child perceives that is true to the child.Isn't that the way prejudice works and are the precursors to victimization of people of color or women?
Isn't that how 5 kids in central park get convicted for something they never did? The police assume the central park 5 were guilty because of their ethnicity not because of the facts. The police painted these 5 kids with the terrible acts that they had seen other people of the same ethnicity do. The police didn't see children they saw criminals. Many innocent people end up in the criminal system and thus become criminals as a method of survival, they had no choice they path is chosen for them by the prejudice/racism of the society.sometimes this same set of events occurs in families there is one child that is just always the black sheep the scapegoat. All of the negative attributes of one or more of the parents ( grandfather in the case of Kylo) psyche is projected to the child.In ancient tribal societies, a goat — yes, that’s where the term comes from — was chosen to represent the group’s collective sins to appease an angry deity.
By casting the animal out, the tribe symbolically guaranteed itself a clean slate going forward. Scapegoating appears in most, if not all, groups — from entire nations to towns to organizations and businesses to families — in times of turmoil. Naming a scapegoat and blaming him/her/them for the crisis at hand facilitates not just a sense of unity (us versus them), but also in authoritarian societies provides a go-to explanation for societal problems.This process happens in families as well, and it can be driven by both conscious and motives.In America right now illegal immigrants/asylum seekers are our scapegoat.We as humans, families and societies manifest what we FEAR The most.Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to the darkside. Kylo cannot be compared to the Central Park Five because the Central Park Five actually were innocent.Kylo was not targeted for a GFFA prison system due to his skin color.
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The notion that Leia sent him to Luke because she was racist is absurd.And let’s pretend for just one second that Kylo did decide, ‘well my parents and uncle think I’m guilty, I might as well kill people’—that just makes him look the way a lot of people are already painting him and trying to pretend it’s a positive—like someone who commits atrocious acts and wants to deflect responsibility.The Central Park Five have never gone on to kill anyone since 1989, because.wait for it.they actually were victims. Not murderers or rapists.I’m going to take Han and Leia’s word for it that they saw something terribly wrong and evil in their son and sent him to his uncle for help—that was an act of love, not an act comparable to putting someone in prison due to the person’s skin color, I’m also going to take Luke’s word for it that he saw something evil in Kylo the night he went into his room, especially given that he was proven correct almost immediately.
(I do think Luke’s reaction was wrong, but I am still taking his word for what he did.)Unfortunately this entire narrative leaves us picking sides—does Kylo get the benefit of the doubt, or do the OT3 get the benefit of the doubt?The choice is very easy for me, and it’s not Kylo. TFA was just as much about the story of a father and his son as it was about Han being a father/mentor figure for Rey and her journey with Finn. It's not a coincidence that the emotional climax of the movie is about Han and Kylo's relationship, it was Snoke testing Kylo's loyalty, everything was building up towards this decisive confrontation on the bridge, which we see from Rey's perspective because she's our main protagonist and we're seeing the epic story of the Skywalker family through her eyes.
Click to expand.It was not about Han and Kylo's relationship - we don't know anything about it. It was about Kylo and we're supposed to read in this relationship based on this scene, that hamfisted scene of Han and Leia talking about Kylo and some nonsense from Snoke. There's no relationship - that's why the scene doesn't work. We never see Kylo with his parents so why should I care what happens? I had the same reaction when Leia started with the 'you're his father' nonsense - has Leia lost her mind? No, the narrative did.More importantly, why should Rey care in the slightest?
She knows who Luke is, she never mentions Leia - does she even know who she is? One of the biggest problems of TFA is Leia is completely chopped out of the narrative - Snoke prattling on about Han when LEIA is the one who's given Kylo the Force, when LEIA is the one who sent him away. But because JJ has to kill Han to get him offstage, it's skewed in Han's direction. Does Rey have any idea that Han and Leia were married, that Leia is Luke's sister and therefore Kylo is a Skywalker? How does she know who Darth Vader is? That scene is like she's the Mentalist, guessing at a bad guy's motive.
How does she know who Darth Sidious is? The whole conflict is predicated on US knowing, not the characters in the story. Why should Rey give a damn about the Skywalkers? What did they ever do for her? It's like asking someone from a village in the Amazon to care about what happens to a Kardashian. In fact, I'll say that the emotional story of the OT characters all revolve around Kylo in some form or another, their purpose in the story is just as much about their relationships to their son/nephew as it is also about Rey's journey to become a Jedi. The climax of Luke's story was all about facing his guilt and confronting his nephew by telling 'I'm sorry.
I failed you'. I love Finn and he has his own arc to go through with the Resistance storyline, but it is generally considered to be secondary to the Force plot which is the main plot and that's why both Rey AND Kylo will both be instrumental in defeating Palpatine in TROS. Click to expand.Yes, because Finn is failed by the narrative worse than Han was in ROTJ. Finn's gotten nothing but the shaft from jump. His character should matter - you could build a whole movie around him raising up the stormtroopers, instead, he's spent two movies where his worth matters because he used to clean up spaces in the First Order.Also, yes, of course the emotional story of the OT characters revolves around Kylo because EVERYTHING does. Because nothing Luke, Han and Leia did in the OT matters more than their siring the villain for the ST - everything they did is gone because KK wanted her own Darth Vader but this time, a pretty one like Loki. I don't think this will happen, but what if Snokepatine messed with Kylo's brain while he was in utero.
I thought before he might be on the spectrum, but maybe he was turned into a psycopath instead. That would explain why his values are so messed up and why he keeps doing things to hurt people all the time. And the Maguffin is some sort of machine or something that can unscramble Kylo's brain and enable him to think clearly for the first time in his life. This of course causes him great sorrow when he realizes what he has done and in the end he fights with Rey to take down Palpy.
He tries to sacrifice himself feeling that the only thing he deserves is death, but Rey saves him at the last minute. She doesn't die either. And it ends bittersweetly with all the good guys alive, celebrating like in the OT.
Anakin Vs Kylo Ren
Rey asks Kylo what he's going to do now and he says something about going to achto where Luke and Anakin's force ghosts will teach him how to be good. I think that could be a good way to end the saga. Click to expand.^^^I said none of those things but carry on.As a educated women of color who has been subjected to both racism and sexism. I am actually offended that you are implying that I said those things.If I am honest with myself I actually expect all of my comments to be misconstrued.I hope in the future everyone can do better“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seeds. 4 As he scattered them across his field, some seeds fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate them.
5 Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6 But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died.
7 Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants. 8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted! 9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”. Click to expand.^^^I said none of those things but carry on.As a educated women of color who has been subjected to both racism and sexism. I am actually offended that you are implying that I said those things.If I am honest with myself I actually expect all of my comments to be misconstrued.I hope in the future everyone can do better“Listen! A farmer went out to plant some seeds. 4 As he scattered them across his field, some seeds fell on a footpath, and the birds came and ate them.
5 Other seeds fell on shallow soil with underlying rock. The seeds sprouted quickly because the soil was shallow. 6 But the plants soon wilted under the hot sun, and since they didn’t have deep roots, they died. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns that grew up and choked out the tender plants. 8 Still other seeds fell on fertile soil, and they produced a crop that was thirty, sixty, and even a hundred times as much as had been planted!
9 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand.”. Click to expand.Maybe don't compare Kylo to the Central Park 5 then? If you're claiming Kylo was innocent before Han and Leia sent him to Luke (which I really doubt), the comparison falls apart because they didn't send him to prison. If you're claiming he only fell to the dark because Han and Leia worried about it, the comparison falls apart because the CP5 didn't actually rape anyone just because everyone thought they had.So please, if we're misunderstanding you, clarify.
Because all I see is comparing Han and Leia to a system and society that wrongfully prosecuted and imprisoned some innocent kids. Maybe don't compare Kylo to the Central Park 5 then? If you're claiming Kylo was innocent before Han and Leia sent him to Luke (which I really doubt), the comparison falls apart because they didn't send him to prison. If you're claiming he only fell to the dark because Han and Leia worried about it, the comparison falls apart because the CP5 didn't actually rape anyone just because everyone thought they had.So please, if we're misunderstanding you, clarify. Because all I see is comparing Han and Leia to a system and society that wrongfully prosecuted and imprisoned some innocent kids.
Again, I believe Kylo & Rey to be mythic archetypes and I hesitate to use current politics and situations as metaphors for either of their arcs. Whether or not Rey pushes all of the correct buttons for a proper feminist protagonist or whether Kylo actions are perceived through the mirror of the American school shooter problem and as such the character is used to punish real world school shooters by proxy.
I find both views myopic and missing the greater metaphysical point. The politics of ( rich, white, males from powerful familes) have nothing to do with Reylo or Bendemption. Bendemption is not a word I would use but I agree with the idea, I am just a firm believer that atonement and repentance comes before redemption. Christian doctrine of forgiveness and redemption is part and parcel of Star Wars, it is built into it's DNA.
However, I don't believe that Kylo's story and Vader's story are a one for one. I don't believe that Kylo has been set up to receive a Vader/Pauline like last minute redemption. JJ has said it recently, the new generation are dealing with inheriting the darkness and the light.
The sins of the Grandfather are visited upon Kylo, however his burden is heavier if he wants to get back to the light or bring balance. So if you where trying to equate Kylo with rich, white, male, criminal who get's away with crimes, I think his story is more nuanced and complicated than that.As a women and person of color I see the operation of victimization as two fold. How does this occur? I keep reiterating that Kylo was the shadow of the OT3 and I hold firm to that analogy.
So if we are paying attention to the text of TFA & TLJ you will find the anatomy of how Kylo fell to the darkside. He was perceived as guilty long before he had done anything.e OT3 are holding secret the truth and identity of their relation to Vader, that secret is held because of fear and that fear is projected to Ben. He inherited bad expectations from his bloodline connection to Vader. Ben was the 'problem' child shipped of to Uncle Luke to fix by his parents. This confirmed Kylo's feeling of abandonment and also a sense of rejection and a confirmation that he was a monster. So the adolescent says well if they think I am bad well let me show them how bad I can really be.
It does not even matter if Leia, Han, & Luke actually believed that. It is what the child perceives that is true to the child.Isn't that the way prejudice works and are the precursors to victimization of people of color or women? Isn't that how 5 kids in central park get convicted for something they never did?
The police assume the central park 5 were guilty because of their ethnicity not because of the facts. The police painted these 5 kids with the terrible acts that they had seen other people of the same ethnicity do. The police didn't see children they saw criminals. Many innocent people end up in the criminal system and thus become criminals as a method of survival, they had no choice they path is chosen for them by the prejudice/racism of the society.sometimes this same set of events occurs in families there is one child that is just always the black sheep the scapegoat. All of the negative attributes of one or more of the parents ( grandfather in the case of Kylo) psyche is projected to the child.In ancient tribal societies, a goat — yes, that’s where the term comes from — was chosen to represent the group’s collective sins to appease an angry deity.
By casting the animal out, the tribe symbolically guaranteed itself a clean slate going forward. Scapegoating appears in most, if not all, groups — from entire nations to towns to organizations and businesses to families — in times of turmoil. Click to expand.' The politics of (rich, white, males from powerful familes) have nothing to do with Reylo or Bendemption' - but the politics surrounding The Central Park Five somehow parallels the treatment of Kylo Ren?This is possibly the worst Star Wars take I have ever seen.This is exactly why Kylo Ren does represent the current politics many fans hesitate to use as metaphors. If a bad person looks a certain way and has a certain societal status, people always hesitate to say they're bad. Even if they've shot up a school or killed a bunch of women or openly dehumanize people.That hesitation is dangerous as hell, not least of all because it is not something that is given to people like the CP5.I feel like the audience reaction to Kylo Ren is a statement on our twisted time in itself.
It could be an interactive piece on society, but I don't think it was meant to be that deep. It just fell into place as the audience automatically (and aggressively) empathized with Kylo over the heroes.Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk. “Anakin I have failed you” and “Ben I have failed you” are both cases of adults invoking guilt trips on themselves for bad choices that grown children previously under their charge have made, and it’s usually not justified—it’s never justified in the case when the adult self-imposing the guilt trip has done the best he or she could with the knowledge that he or she had.Which is the case with both Obi-Wan in Anakin’s case and Luke in Kylo’s case. Neither Obi-Wan nor Luke in any way caused Anakin or Kylo to make terrible choices. “Anakin I have failed you” and “Ben I have failed you” are both cases of adults invoking guilt trips on themselves for bad choices that grown children previously under their charge have made, and it’s usually not justified—it’s never justified in the case when the adult self-imposing the guilt trip has done the best he or she could with the knowledge that he or she had.Which is the case with both Obi-Wan in Anakin’s case and Luke in Kylo’s case. Neither Obi-Wan nor Luke in any way caused Anakin or Kylo to make terrible choices.
Luke in TLJ may want to deflect responsibility off Anakin for the choices that Anakin deliberately made (or Rian Johnson via Luke may want to do so), but I will not. I’m not going to participate in a “never grow up” game in which adults get to commit crimes and blame innocent and loving caregivers from their childhoods. It’s disgusting, and a way for the immature criminal adult to try to avoid responsibility.It’s a more sinister equivalent of an elementary school child doing something wrong and then saying “but he or she MADE me!” My response at work is always, Nope, you made the choice, knowing full well what you were doing wrong, and you do not get a pass because you thought someone was encouraging you to do wrong.And we can expect third graders to be immature and act like, well, third graders.
Adults, not so much. Considering its Anakin who redeems himself, not Obi-wan, I'd say GL places blame on Anakin alone. Anakin made the choice to fall. And he made his choice to be redeemed. Obi-wan didn't have a hand in either, but feels saddened that he failed his student against protecting himself from the dark side and its seductions, just as any teacher might. But Obi-wan is not to blame for Anakin's fall or evil. In the same way that Luke is not to blame for Kylo's evil, despite feeling guilty about that his nephew fell.
There is a difference between a character feeling an emotion, and the writer telling us this is a true fact. The writing in TLJ and Luke blaming Obi-wan for Anakin's fall, as well as blaming Luke for creating Kylo Ren, fails to understand this distinction. Click to expand.It's still an outrageously bad take to suggest that Ben Solo and the CP5 are in the same realm as narratives about 'how prejudice and shadow/scapegoating work.' It's not apt in any way.
You can't remove race and apply it to Ben with the implication that people who see him as a criminal are simply prejudiced. That's completely absurd. He was seen as an innocent boy by everyone - including Luke after he saw the darkness in him - until he started killing.Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk. In ROTS, when Anakin kills Mace he says 'What have I done?' What has Obi-wan done to me' or 'Why has Obi-wan failed me'. 'Or this is all Obi-wan's fault' as he did when he threw his tantrum in AOTC, after committing murder.
That earlier Anakin was placing blame on anyone but himself. But ROTS Anakin clearly blames himself, and knows this was his choice. Not his mentors.
He knows he's done wrong, and as he kneels before his new master is essentially bowing before what he now perceives as his fate for that action.This is what TLJ fails to understand. It takes tantrum-throwing juvenile thinking and says this is actual truth, and the more mature adult thinking about owning up to ones actions and choices and says it's false.
Click to expand.Here’s the thing though: Anakin was a child introduced a third of the way into the movie, Anakin still came in second place in screentime and development in that movie as part of the ensemble cast, Qui-Gon then died, and the next movie saw it truly become Anakin’s lead role.Kylo has not one but two characters who were clearly focused on and given more screentime than him on the first movie. And not only did neither die, but both are still active leads. Click to expand.The problem is that there’s no clear reason why Palpatine showing up should immediately facilitate that change. Evil doesn’t become light when greater evil appears.
There needs to be an in-story reason why this might compel Kylo to change. And it really needs to be more than empty authorial fiat in the guise of “the will of the Force.” Lucas managed to finagle his Chosen One prophecy to end up feeling more like an organic self-fulfilling caused by a lifetime’s worth of understandable decisions made by numerous characters. If you just have Kylo go “Oh, Palpatine! This means I must flip now!” That’s going to be stupid.Having said that, I’ll admit that I presume such a decision would inevitably include actual storytelling reasons for the move. I’ll also admit part of the issue is I don’t want to cheer for Kylo.
I’d much rather have a three way fight scene between Rey, Palpatine, and Kylo, where Rey’s the only hero, or have Kylo possessed by Palpatine to be used as his tool. I’m simply not going to cheer for the twerp in the particular trilogy. Come back later, after Rey AND Finn have had their glory. And don’t give Kylo more glory than Finn, period.
Contents Appearances The Force Awakens (2015) Capturing PoeHe at first appeared encountering Lor San Tekka, whom he had killed, and he imprisoned Poe Dameron, a talented X-wing pilot, thus asking him where the map to Luke is. However, he did not know the map was handed to BB-8, who has gone far away on the same planet.
He then witnessed through using his power on Poe that the Resistance have the map, However, he saw Poe escaping with Finn, and had to report this to Hux.The MapThen, he asked General Hux to find the map for him, but Hux disagreed, reminding him that he has a higher rank to Snoke. Kylo Ren and Hux were later called to Snoke, who questioned Hux about his plans to destroy the Resistance. Hux then stated that the weapon is ready for use, and exited the room with Snoke agreeing. Snoke told Kylo Ren that there had been an awakening.
Kylo Ren was informed by Snoke that BB8 is found in The Millennium Falcon, owned by his father Han Solo. As Kylo Ren said 'it means nothing to me', Snoke replied that even he is no challenge for such a strong Resistance awakening, and angrily stated that they shall see who's right.Vader's MaskKylo then talked to Darth Vader's mask, promising not to fail again.Kylo and ReyKylo Ren later went to operate the Resistance Base, and find it's location, so Hux would be able to complete his plans. He captured Rey in the middle of an operation, and took her to his room and tied her up on the couch. However, he tried to redeem himself through reading her thoughts. He told her there is nothing to worry about, and even took off his mask. He tried to discover the map, but the only thing he succeeded was in discovering Han.
However, Rey didn't trust him, as she even used her own power of the force to prevent Kylo from reading her mind. Snoke called Kylo again and asked him angrily if the scavenger resisted him, as reported. Kylo Ren tried to protect Rey, by telling Snoke that he is stronger than her force powers.
However, Hux interfered and stated that the fact he brought the girl foiled his plans, and that because of it, The Resistance may have got the map back already. When Kylo came back, he knew that Rey had escaped, and he chased her with some Stormtroopers.Killing HanHan later came with Rey and Finn to deactivate all generators in the base, so the base would explode and The First Order would no longer be threatening.
Han spotted Kylo Ren, and called him by his old name 'Ben'. Kylo took off his mask, and almost managed redeeming himself, telling him he is torn to pieces, and that getting a promise by Han to set things straight. Kylo almost succeeded in giving his lightsaber to Han. However, due to corruption caused by Snoke and Hux, he killed Han, as the dark powers have developed in him even more. He thanked Han for that loving option, as Han cuddled him and fell off the bridge with his open arms.Kylo vs. Finn and ReyHe then battled and defeated Finn, calling him a traitor.
Then, he passed on to Rey, who couldn't stand him anymore and fought him with no mercy. During the battle, the Rebels demolished The Starkiller Base's thermal oscillator, causing a huge earthquake in the planet's super-weapon. In the middle of the battle, Kylo Ren asked Rey to trust him, and he was finally willing to redeem himself from any evil, and letting her defeat him. Ren was then even prepared to be killed by her, but a rift developed between them. Kylo Ren almost died, but he was rescued by Hux and taken to Snoke, as Snoke said that he would finish his training.Star Wars: The Last Jedi Helping Rey against SnokeKylo Ren is called in by Snoke, who calls him 'a child with a mask', and begins to doubt in Ren's capability. Kylo Ren then tries to prove himself, as he assists Hux during his attack on The Resistance. He is forced to use a TIE fighter and try to fire it's cannon on Leia.
However, he does not manage to do that, because he remembers that Leia loves him. Hux however does try to kill Leia. Kylo Ren has secretly contacted Rey within visions which Snoke has organized.
Rey and Kylo Ren however manage to bond through these conversations. In the first vision, Rey asks Ren why he killed Han Solo. He reveals that he still had feelings for his father. Kylo Ren asks Rey if she still thinks he is a monster, and Rey angrily replies that he is.
Rey however later hears Ren's side of Luke's story, as he explains to her that Luke tried to kill him. Rey then manages to sense Kylo Ren's conflict.
In the next vision, Rey and Kylo give each other hands, as they are now completely connected. Luke Skywalker however witnesses the vision, and rushes to tell Rey that Kylo Ren cannot be changed.
Rey however believes he can change, as he is conflicted, and even calls Luke a traitor for 'creating' Kylo Ren. Rey flies in a pod to save Kylo Ren from Snoke and help him redeem himself.
The pod enters Snoke's ship, and Kylo Ren himself finds her, and takes her to Snoke. Kylo Ren's conflict is whether to listen to Rey or Snoke.
Snoke reveals to both Rey and Kylo Ren that he has manipulated them both to get to Skywalker. Snoke tortures Rey and then orders Kylo Ren to kill her. Kylo Ren however kills Snoke instead, and fights his royal guards together with Rey.Seeking revenge on SkywalkerKylo Ren reveals that he cares for Rey, and asks her to join him and form a new order which can destroy the universe which Luke Skywalker tries to protect. Ren also reveals to Rey that her parents are nobodies who sold her for drinking money, and offered her to join the dark side, stating that she means something to him. Rey however resists. Kylo Ren and Rey both try to reach the sword by using their force powers, as the two then fly back, and the sword drops. Rey manages to escape, but Kylo Ren is left unconscious.
Hux later enters the throne room, and is shocked when he realizes that Kylo Ren is no longer operating under his influence. Kylo Ren tells Hux that he is about to finish what Snoke had started. Hux at first disagrees, but Kylo Ren force chokes him. Kylo Ren is about to murder Hux, but Hux offers to team up with him, and together, they will rebuild The First Order, and out of fear he lets Ren become the new supreme leader.
They command an attack on The Resistance, under Hux's strategy to break into a locked room where The Resistance are hiding. Hux is about to break through the door. As the troops and the giant mechanisms march forward, Luke Skywalker suddenly appears.
Kylo Ren orders the troops to stop where they are. Under Ren's command, the troops start firing all of their munitions at Skywalker, but are quickly ordered by Hux to stop wasting their munitions.
Kylo Ren then force-chokes Hux, leaving him unconscious. Ren exits his mechanism and faces Skywalker alone. He then tells Luke that by killing him, he will end the Jedi. Luke however explains to him that there will be a new Jedi order which will eventually defeat him and The First Order. Luke came especially to sacrifice himself in order to delay Hux's attack, on what remained of The Resistance.PersonalityAs one side of him tries to fight darkness and know his family better, he is influenced by darkness as he has killed and betrayed his father Han Solo.
He seems to love Han Solo, but not have the courage to stand up for him in front of Hux and Snoke.Even Adam Driver himself says that Kylo Ren is not a true villain, so that means Kylo has a very tragic, yet obsessive, personality overall.Gallery.